You know who you are
Paradox, Purgatory, or Paradise
I'm watching the 2006 movie, The Invasion, with Nicole Kidman and Daniel Craig.
In this movie (based on the Invasion of the Body Snatchers, 1956) an alien epidemic has invaded the earth and is changing human nature. They invade the human body through an exchange of fluids -- like someone puking into your mouth -- and change the infected while they sleep. The infected wake up with the same memories and same personality except the absence of feelings and emotions. They walk around seeking to infect everyone around them. They dispose of those that are immune.
The movie touches on what it means to be human. In an early scene there is a conversation between psychiatrist (Kidman) and a Russian diplomat. The Russian makes the case that to imagine a world without human evil, with atrocities, without war and violence in every direction would be to "imagine a world where human beings cease to be human."
The alien, on the other hand, speaking to the psychiatrist through the body of her love interest (Daniel Craig) explains to her (after he has been infected and undergoes the change) that what they offer is a world without war, suffering and evil. In their world, he says, they are incapable of harming one another because in their world there is no "them", no "other". He releases about a half a dozen aliens to help him infect her. He tells her just before they step towards her, "We were wrong to resist them."
Plato wrote that "only the dead have seen the end of war." Jesus said "the poor you will always have with you." The scriptures tell us that one day there will be no more war, no more poor, no more evil. Incredibly, we participate in that world, and not as robots but as creatures with a freedom to choose. This is, I think, the only real miracle in the Bible and in the universe: God is making the cosmos right again and we're still in it!
Would we still be human in that world?
Would we even like that world?
Which world would you prefer? The world of the Russian or the world of the alien?
Of course, most of us will choose neither world. All of us suspect that an incomprehensible miracle still lies before us. We will hold out until what has happened in Christ erupts and the world is made human again. But, it boggles the mind what exactly it will mean to be human again.
What do you think?
In this movie (based on the Invasion of the Body Snatchers, 1956) an alien epidemic has invaded the earth and is changing human nature. They invade the human body through an exchange of fluids -- like someone puking into your mouth -- and change the infected while they sleep. The infected wake up with the same memories and same personality except the absence of feelings and emotions. They walk around seeking to infect everyone around them. They dispose of those that are immune.
The movie touches on what it means to be human. In an early scene there is a conversation between psychiatrist (Kidman) and a Russian diplomat. The Russian makes the case that to imagine a world without human evil, with atrocities, without war and violence in every direction would be to "imagine a world where human beings cease to be human."
The alien, on the other hand, speaking to the psychiatrist through the body of her love interest (Daniel Craig) explains to her (after he has been infected and undergoes the change) that what they offer is a world without war, suffering and evil. In their world, he says, they are incapable of harming one another because in their world there is no "them", no "other". He releases about a half a dozen aliens to help him infect her. He tells her just before they step towards her, "We were wrong to resist them."
Plato wrote that "only the dead have seen the end of war." Jesus said "the poor you will always have with you." The scriptures tell us that one day there will be no more war, no more poor, no more evil. Incredibly, we participate in that world, and not as robots but as creatures with a freedom to choose. This is, I think, the only real miracle in the Bible and in the universe: God is making the cosmos right again and we're still in it!
Would we still be human in that world?
Would we even like that world?
Which world would you prefer? The world of the Russian or the world of the alien?
Of course, most of us will choose neither world. All of us suspect that an incomprehensible miracle still lies before us. We will hold out until what has happened in Christ erupts and the world is made human again. But, it boggles the mind what exactly it will mean to be human again.
What do you think?
Tags: humanity
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Gnotek on -
As I said, 30 billion a year. I don't recall where to find the article now. I think at the time I thought, "Oh I won't forget this..." so I didn't bookmark it or anything. But I do recall the article saying, "...for 30 billion a year..."
What I said and asked was, "Just think of the strife relieved in a world with no hunger. How many wars would that in and of itself obliterate?" Not that relieving hunger would obliterate all war, not by any means, but it would surely put a dent in many a desperate situation and I was asking how many wars it might end. Or would it? Peoples with NO food has surely sparked revolt and riots against its leaders in the past, even in this country. During the Great Depression there were city riots. But would nation war against nation for food resources? Or for water? Or for oil?
You're probably very right though, power and control are much greater reasons for war. I wouldn't argue against that for a second.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Weaver on -
Hey Alex,
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion starter. It caused two thoughts in my head. One, how would I finish the sentence, "to be human is to..." and the second is the gnostic heresy. When I first read your question, "Would we still be human in that world?" my answer was yes. If we're talking about a world in the here and now, then we have to appreciate our humanness, that which is fragile and made of stuff. The Christian gnostics were down on matter and high on a special knowledge to be obtained. If I recall correctly, the gnostics didn't care a bit what we did with our bodies or anything material for that matter because it was all evil. Matter didn't matter in the end. What mattered was a special knowledge, a special insight, a special gnosis...We need to be careful not to dimish our humanity thinking that if we did life would get better. The new heaven and new earth awaits for us, but we're not there yet. Maybe I'm pessimistic here, but I'm not sure we'll ever achieve redeeming this broken world from suffering, evil, war, poverty, etc. We are all caught in sin that infects us deeply, beyond relearning new behaviors. It doesn't mean we don't try. We do as we are able to make this world as God intended, but in the end, the end will come and God will reestablish it himself. Only God can. In the meantime, we do what we're able to do.
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Permalink Reply by Alex McManus on -
Hey Mike. Thanks for the contribution. So, how would you end "to be human is to...". I've wrestled with that question as I prepared my manuscript for publication. It's not as easy as one might think.
The gnostic question...I'm probing here (and so does the movie) NOT about the material/spiritual dichotomy -- which I don't believe exists -- but about the issue of "will" and "freedom". What in the world (pun intended) would it mean to be human in a world where humans are still free to choose and yet there is no evil? I love the nuanced spin Michael gave the conversation about that.
I agree with you, this is something that God himself will accomplish. I think that is the gospel --God is making the universes right again and He is doing it through Jesus the Christ.
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Permalink Reply by John Gnotek on
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Okay, I've thought about this for a few days (and really should think about it longer before spouting). But it's really not that difficult of a vision, though I don't think I can give it full justice in a blog posting. This really is a book, but I'll touch briefly on several thoughts:
First, just imagine the absence of evil. The difficult thing of course is reckoning what evil is, especially reckoning the evil within us. It's easy to say war is evil or abortion is evil or homosexuality is evil or Dick Cheney is evil. But so is that little streak of jealousy when you find out a co-worker got a project you desired, got a raise or is making more money than you. Evil also lies in that lingering glimpse of protruded nipples on the cover of Maxxim on rack in a grocery store line. Evil can be found in worrying about your 401k while your neighbor eats cat food. Evil is found not only in the torture of enemy combatants, but also in the minds of those who dehumanize our enemies so that we may go about guiltless when our proxies do such acts. Evil lies in doing something—or not doing something—when the good prompting deep inside us is telling us differently. Even such an act as keeping that extra 15 cents change you were mistakenly given at McDonalds. Or manipulating "words" out of their original context.
In other words evil, or sin, or the devil—whatever you choose to call the antithesis of good, of God, is a very objective thing almost always viewed subjectively. But as I stated in an earlier post, it may be a dynamic thing as well. For example, marijuana is a controlled substance in this country, a criminal offense. It's against the law. However marijuana has been shown to have great medicinal value, especially in treatments for chronic cancer patients, glaucoma, Hep C, and other illnesses. So is it evil to alleviate the misery a chronic cancer patient endures with chemo? Even though it is against the law? And of no additional harm or side effects? What about going through a red light at 3:00 in the morning in the middle of the country or the desert with clearly no other vehicle in sight for as far as one can see? What about smuggling a Bible into a country that forbids it?
On the other hand, some things that are clearly not evil could still be a sin. For example when I was a kid (and I know this is going to sound whack but bear with me) I thought it wrong to fart up—disrespectful to God. If I was lying in bed on my stomach and had to fart, I would roll over and fart down toward the devil. I know this sounds ridiculous but I was probably ten or younger. Little did I realize or understand at that age that God is within—not up or above the clouds—nor did I consider a fart to be a natural act—a release of gas. It stank! It had to be bad. But even so, in that state of mind, with those considerations and intentions, had I just said to myself, "Screw it, I'm not bothering to roll over," I believe that would have been a sin. Not that farting is a sin, but because I believed at the time it was disrespectful to God to fart in his direction. It was not an actual sin, an actual evil, but a sin of conscience and a seed of evil.
As I said in the previous post, I think the key is walking with God, to hear the voice when spoken to and obey. How does one do this?
That too is a simple solution, but it's not easy [at first]. Jesus said to love God with your whole being; and to love your neighbor as yourself. If we can wrap our minds around this premise, and guide our actions and thoughts through this filter then you are on that right path—walking with God. If the whole world were able to do so, then we are at the gateway to Alex's question of what this kind of world without evil would look like. So what does that look like?
It would NOT be as the premise of The Invasion, that premise being an alien force, forcing good upon mankind. That is an act against free will, but this is the very premise that many have made over the centuries: the Inquisition, forcing Jews to become Christians, decimating ancient cultures to be "saved." I'm sure many could argue the Conquistadors destroying the Mayan human sacrifice culture was a good thing, but it wasn't God's way. If it were, why didn't God destroy Satan and the rebelling angels right off the bat?
Well the answer to that may be a blog or a book in and of itself, but the short answer I believe is free will. Had God chosen to destroy Satan right then and there (which he had every justification to do), I would imagine Satan's defense was, "Hey, you made me as I am. How can you fault me for what you created? This is your sin." Think of the head trip this must of had on the remaining angels. A seed of doubt had been planted. Would God's heavenly host then honor God out of love--or fear? It may well be our human existence is an essential act for the justification of God's judgements and his vindication of free will. THAT GOD IS ALL ABOUT LOVE. To create a meaningless, insignificant creature like humans, allow them to go wayward, and for God to become such an insignificant being (lower than the angels—of Satan) in order to take upon himself the penalty of man's sin — to illustrate love and the validity of judgement. The short answer.
So in a world without evil, I think free will is still manifest. And for the world to remain evil-less, the inhabitants would have to free-willingly love God with all their being, and love mankind as God does. Actually that might be easier than in our current state of affairs. It's easy vary hard to love evil persons. However even without evil, there still is tragedy: earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados, storms—all very natural acts of this living biosphere. Some may still starve, being in a predicament trapped without food or water. Accidents may still happen. And perhaps the sins of our fathers may yet come to haunt us. But...
But, the world would be a different place, much better for sure. I think the first evident thing would be a universal peace. Not absence of war and strife per se, but a sense of Godly peace—that state that all is well, all is in God's hands. A state of no worry, of no self concerns. But as it is now, that is a fleeting peace when we do experience it, because we do worry—constantly—because the picture of this world does hold so many evil images. I experienced that peace once I think, when I was being treated for a life threatening disease. On one hand I could have very easily worried the whole time that I might indeed die, and think of all the things I would miss. But on the other hand I did feel that God was at hand, had led me to this spot to receive treatment to purge me of a disease I had brought upon my prodigal self and which hung over me like a Midas sword. I felt this was all in God's hands and I felt peace through this whole harrowing experience as if I were laying in the cupped palms of God himself, cradled in his arms. And though I know in my head God is in control if you allow him, that state of deep peace lasted only as long as it needed to. There was a hedge against evil seed during that period. My mind didn't dwell on "poor me," "why me," "what if." So I imagine in a world without evil, this kind of peace would prevail universally.
Charity would also be big. Charity of resources. Charity of time. And charity of being. If a natural disaster did occur then the entire inhabitants of the world would rally. Or whatever segments or individuals God might rally to serve purpose. Yet the entire world would empathize. There would be no, "God hates faggots is why San Francisco was struck by the Big One," or "Katrina was God's retribution for the sin of New Orleans lifestyle." I think people would finally realize that you could experience an earthquake—and die—living on a fault line, or you might get swept away in a hurricane living along the Gulf coast or flooded living below sea level—on the sea. I think God would mobilize the servants he needs to rescue and serve the peoples afflicted; and those servants would respond without reservation the clarion call. I think there are great examples of this today even in this world. But imagine these examples as a universal, across-the-board, everyday way of life.
Charity is also the absence of greed. Imagine business objectives that actually had the well-being of the public in mind. Corporations that served the community whole-heartedly, and not just some token community event. Imagine corporate profits serving their customers, their workers and this enlightened community, rather than an individual person's interests and personal gains. Stock holders who invested because they believed in the company and not the bottom line. And "competition" a lost word. The concept of "cream rising to the top" an antiquated concept and humorous joke—because that which holds up the cream is just as instrumental to the success of the cream rising. Instead of competing for the promotion or the job, imagine helping your fellow worker fulfill their greatest potential and being honest enough with yourself when you know that job wasn't meant for you. Pride is at the kernel of competition isn't it? Even competition in sports. "I'm better than you!" CS Lewis said (paraphrased) in reference to an artist's self appraisal in The Great Divorce, "to be able to appraise it with neither modesty nor pride." You are what you are—say it, but don't think yourself so great to be better than anyone else. A bad side-effect of pride is the sense of entitlement. Imagine a world without "entitlement." "I deserve..." That could and maybe should be the first evil block to break. That was probably Lucifer's first sin. He may have felt he was running the show, but God was getting all the credit.
Imagine a world with no borders! To be able to cross through countries like we cross state lines. Imagine being a traveler and knocking on any residential door and being welcomed in for refreshments and lodging.
Imagine a world where you don't need to lock your doors.
Imagine a world where its inhabitants care about it (the world) and put a stop to fossil fuels and develop clean technologies and reusable fuel sources. No polluting the air, rivers and streams. I grew up a few blocks from the Rouge River and recall, as a kid, thinking that once upon a time fish actually lived in this river. It was so polluted that if in playing around your foot got soaked, it was run home and wash it off fast. Imagine THAT was "once upon a time."
Imagine Republican and Democrats were NOT two sides of the same coin and actually had their own ideas—yet worked together.
Imagine education for all. I think education is the best investment one can make. I think education is the solution to lots, most, if not ALL problems humanity faces. An example is look at what the GI Bill after World War II did. We had one of the greatest economic growth bursts and entreprenuerial movements in history, some say in large part because of this educational opportunity. Imagine if everyone were educated.
Imagine health care for all.
Imagine opportunity for all.
Imagine the "haves" providing for the "have nots." Wholeheartedly. The "eye of the needle" just got much bigger.
Imagine efforts put into projects that benefit humanity rather than campaigns that destroy. It's commonly said that the Iraq War costs the US taxpayers $10 billion a month! What kind of good could that kind of money do diverted to projects and efforts that help humanity?
Imagine a world without Fifth Avenue marketing. The kind of BS marketing that sells you stuff you don't need, for reasons that aren't true, flattering and inciting the "I deserve" factor.
Imagine a world with no vanity.
Imagine "heroes" are those who risk or offer their life for a truly worthwhile cause; not heroes who exploit a talent to the adoration of others.
I would have to think a lot of things we openly or secretly enjoy would vanish: Victoria Secrets catalogs, racy movies, violent movies, slasher movies, Quentan Tarantino movies, "professional wrestling," boxing, Twinkies, gangsta rap...
Imagine religion wasn't dogmatic. "Denominations" didn't have THE ANSWER, but they all had questions.
Imagine no "televangelists."
Imagine no Christianity vs. Judiasm vs. Islam vs. Hinduism vs...
Imagine religion and science were not polar worldviews, but one telling of the nature of God, the other showing how God operates. NOT one or the other. Can you imagine if scientists and theologians really sat down together and hashed out some of the "mysteries" of the universe. Can you picture God sitting down and joining them.
"Human beings have neither the aural nor the psychological capacity to withstand the awesome power of God's true voice. Were you to hear it, your mind would cave in and your heart would explode within your chest. We went through five Adams before we figured that out." Metatron from the movie Dogma.
Imagine if we could.
"I have issues with anyone who treats faith as a burden instead of a blessing. You people don't celebrate your faith; you mourn it." Serendipity from the movie Dogma.
Imagine Christians ACTUALLY believed what Jesus taught, the promises he made. I don't see too many people moving mountains by their faith. Nor raising folks from the dead. Nor do most Christians I've met really trust their lives to God with no worry of how they will make ends meet, what the future holds, or what their purpose in life is. I'm sure there are many folks with huge amounts of faith, but I think we as a Christian movement/followers of Christ do treat faith more as a burden and not as a blessing and source of great power it is. The Gnostics like pagans had it all WRONG. It's NOT in secret knowledge that God's power lies, or rite and ritual, or in chants and spells—but in faith. The first steps can be hard, painful even, but soon it's not something to grasp or find or lose, but you become one with faith and in that dimension or state you can operate it. The powers of God flows through you naturally in that state of being.
Imagine living in such faith.
Imagine a world where people aren't "judged by the color of their skin," or by how smart they are, or by their car and house, or by their job and position, or by how much money they make; BUT by how much they love, by how much they serve God and serve humanity, by how much they give (rather than take).
As I said, this could be a book, and I could go on and on, but I hope others do instead. So with a two-year old on my lap coloring in a coloring book I sign off and post (for now).
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Permalink Reply by Alex McManus on
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you should try getting excited every now and then.
oh, wow! no televangelists. john lennon missed that one.
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Permalink Reply by John Gnotek on
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I'm reserving my excitement for Disneyworld in a few weeks.
Did that John Lennon rip sound too humanistic?
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Permalink Reply by Chris Marsden on -
First of all... Wow. Great thoughts.
Second... The steps to get there seem insurmountable. Which is why I have such a hard time imagining such a world before some sort of miraculous intervention. BUT... just because I can't imagine it actually happening is not an excuse not to make steps in that direction.
Third (and most important)... Greed, selfishness, and entitlement are the core of our problems. As I was reading your post, the section about greed and education struck me most. One of the things I have often wondered is that if we reached everyone in our communities with education, crises intervention services, and taught them how to get a good job and make something of their lives, then who would be left to work at McDonalds? I know that sounds like a crazy question, but seriously, if we don't curb our greed and desire for cheap fast unhealthy food, then no matter how high we raise the lowly, we will figure out ways to ensure we are still above them. It has to start with the people who have giving up the right to have.
I was preaching a sermon last summer and going through the obligatory 1 Cor. 13 passage on love and I realized that the key word to that whole "love is" section is the phrase "it is not selfish". In the context of my marriage, if I love my wife with an unselfish love, and she loves me with an unselfish love, there is nothing left but love. We may argue or disagree, but there is a foundation that can not be shaken. The rest of that passage comes in line. There are no thoughts of other women (or men, in her case). Money troubles are simply temporary obstacles to overcome.
Not apply that unselfish idea to the love your neighbor concept... Now your vision has a foundation that makes it possible. But the concept of unselfishness goes against the basic gut of most of the Western World, at least, if not the whole world. We want to succeed. We want to move forward. We want more money and more stuff.
How do we change that basic selfishness in people? How do we change it in ourselves?
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Permalink Reply by Michael Alexander McManus on -
haha thats an easy one! children would work at mcdonalds until they had acquired more useful skills for the rest of society. its either that or robots, either one would work for me :D
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Permalink Reply by mono on -
"Would we still be human in that world?"
In this world we are in a lot of ways not human, we are what we take to be human, my hope goes to the redemption of this world, and the redemption of humanity, setting the creation right.
"But, it boggles the mind what exactly it will mean to be human again."
You mean it boggles the mind what exactly it will mean to be finally fully human in contrast to the way we are now human.
"This is, I think, the only real miracle in the Bible and in the universe: God is making the cosmos right again and we're still in it!"
I totally resonate with you on that, btw have you read anything N.T. Wright has written? He just gave some very challenging talks at Harvard University talking about similar topic.
Why Do Good in a Hopeless World?
What is Good in a World that Defies Hope?
Doing Good: What Plus Hope Equals Change?
You can listen to them on http://www.hgscf.org/talks.htm
greets from Germany
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Permalink Reply by Alex McManus on
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So true...there are many ways in which we are not human. I have a book coming out called Making The World Human Again in which I make use of this ...
"You mean it boggles the mind what exactly it will mean to be finally fully human in contrast to the way we are now human."
No, I mean human again. Like you mentioned, there are a lot of ways in which we are not human. I like this language better than "fully" or "truly" human because it raises more eyebrows and because it implies a process or journey.
Yes, I know of NT Wright from his debates on the resurrection and the whole Jesus Seminar scene. But recently it seems he's become popular reading so I've started to read a little of what he has written too. I like him a lot.
Thanks for the link. I look forward to listening to them.
By the way, I love Germany. Last time I was there I was helping a church planter engage the city. I took my band and we played in several places in Düsseldorf.
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Permalink Reply by John Gnotek on
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Was the cosmos right in the past? Perhaps its yet on its way to perfection and we're along for the ride. The Mayan predict a new age dawning in a few short years. Just 1472 days, 52 minutes and 47 seconds to be exact (as I write this). Science collaborates with the plane of our Solar System lining up exactly with the ecliptic plane of our galaxy. It's also said two other galaxies will line up with ours at the same time. A cosmic event! Maybe a sign of perfection [at long last].
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Permalink Reply by mono on
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I believe that the cosmos was right once.
"Perhaps its yet on its way to perfection and we're along for the ride."
I don't buy the myth of progress any longer, be it evolutionary or otherwise. If the cosmos is on its way to perfection what constitutes that path towards perfection, and if there is every growing progress towards that perfection why are there still so many heartaches? Why isn't that progress towards cosmic perfection taking care of eradicating the injustice and pain in this world?
The simple answer is (imho): Progress cannot account for it. There might be technological advances in all sorts of directions in this world, and that might alleviate some of the problems we face - yet reaching perfection or even saying we are on the way to perfection via progress is far fetched and an idealistic worldview that need to be eradicated. John Lennons "Imagine" will not come true in this world, but the next.
The conclusion to this though is not to give up hope on this world but becoming active within it being ambassadors for the Kingdom starting to set things right with the power through the spirit that works through us.
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